I spoke with director and writer Lulu Wang about her latest series, Expats, premiering on Prime Video on Friday, January 26th. In our short conversation, we spoke about dealing with imposter syndrome, the term “expat”, and how to frame a very personal journey against a backdrop of political upheaval.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
It’s been a while since The Farewell, and my first question would be that what drew you to Expats?
I was on tour with The Farewell when I got the book from Nicole Kidman, who had optioned the novel to adapt for television. And, of course, the opportunity to work with someone like Nicole was very intriguing. I read the book and loved its exquisite depiction of women, which was done in a way that I’d never seen before. It was just complex and nuanced. That’s what started the initial conversation.
I read in an older interview where you spoke of experiencing a kind of imposter syndrome after The Farewell, and it really struck with me because as somebody who also creates things and writes things, there’s this mutual feeling of “oh, will anybody care about this? Nobody wants to see it”.
But after a global success like The Farewell, and what I hope Expats will also have, do you still find yourself feeling that? Or is that something that has gone away over time?
I think that there are two types of imposter syndromes for me, or there’s probably multiple types, but I’ll talk about the two that I have. One is my own sense of like; am I really a director? Because, as a director, you’re on set for so little time in the context of all things. You’re on set for 26 days, and then you’re editing, and all of those things are part of being a director.
But for me, Expats meant being on set for over 100 days continuously. So I got to make these directorial decisions day after day, and solve problems all the time. I think it really did help to take away the imposter syndrome. It allowed me to think, OK, I am an artist, I am a director, I know how to do this. I’m not just pretending.
But I think the other part of the imposter syndrome is just the industry of it all, and whether you really feel like you are part of that community of Hollywood and other filmmakers. I think that part of it will continue to exist on some level in a way that’s healthy. Because you want to be part of the community. But also, we’re always trying to challenge the status quo. So in order to challenge that, we have to step away from it and look at what’s being done, and in what ways can you bring a new perspective.
One thing that I found, and I appreciate about the show, is that it jumps at the notion that the line between an immigrant and an expat is often purely a financial one. Did that shape your approach to the material? Was that on your mind when you were writing it and making it?
Oh, yes, absolutely. I thought about that and all the differences between an expat and an immigrant, because I spent most of my life, and I still am, an immigrant. I don’t know if there is a point at which you stop being an immigrant. That’s the bigger question.
But at least our perception of immigrants tend to be people of color, people who aren’t privileged, who are there out of survival or desperation. And there’s also a question of permanence versus impermanence between expats and immigrants. I thought about all of those factors.
In The Farewell, the family keeps secrets out of love. And then in Expats, the secrets are often out of self-interest. What is it about family dynamics and this kind of generational trauma that makes for good drama?
I don’t know, I guess, in many ways the people who know us best are often the people that we sometimes resent, and have the most drama with. It’s often because they’re a reflection of ourselves and the things that we haven’t dealt with or haven’t faced. Family dramas dealing with psychology is a process of dealing with a lot of different mirrors of your characters.
The show also deals with people isolating themselves in bubbles and their own worlds, but it’s really clearly attuned to the realities of Hong Kong and mainland China. How did you approach that divide when telling the story? And were you anxious to approach it? Because it is quite a big thing to deal with?
I’m not a historian or a politician by any means. But I think that what was important to me was that I captured something that was authentic and true.
And to this particular moment in time, this is a series about characters who are living against a political backdrop and huge political changes. It’s at the intersection of the personal and the political, which, I think, whether we like it or not, that’s we all are. I wanted to look at how they navigated or chose not to navigate this life. Who gets affected by these changes? Who gets affected by what’s happening politically and who doesn’t?
I came at it from a very personal lens, and I really looked at it through the characters, rather than trying to make a political statement.
How important was it to play with the subtitles by withholding them from the audience at times, and just letting that that kind of divide? And also the, the sense that we are experiencing with the people who don’t speak the language? Like, can you talk about that a little bit?
I’m always very intentional about the perspective that I’m putting the audience in. So if I want the audience to really connect with a character who’s an outsider, and who doesn’t understand what’s happening, then I also withhold that those subtitles from the audience.
But if I want the audience to get a joke, for example, that our character is not getting because they don’t speak the language, but I want the audience to understand and be able to laugh, then I give it subtitles.
That’s something that my editor and I talk about constantly, and we’ll flip back and forth. We ask ourselves, what’s better here? Is confusion better? Is it serving the story? Or do we really want to allow the humor to come through?
We have to wrap up, but I had one more question, and I feel like this is a very terminally online one. But I must know, was that Chauncey in a cameo?
Yeah! Yes! That is Chauncey playing himself! He came to Hong Kong for that.